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Friday, August 03, 2007

Comments

fernando

Wow - I feel the need for a little context here. I'm tempted to say O'Donovan is massively wrong, which is not something I would ever say lightly.

May the the church in the death-throes of Christendom is not that much "freer" but it sure is a lot more "independent-minded." Moreover, I'm not sure I've ever felt the church is trying to lock-step with "...the stock exchange, the law-courts and the public schools."

As for "...the Christian community is possessed by its Gospel;" well I have no idea what he means here. I sure hope it isn't something like "believing harder."

Possessed is a very pregnant word. It could imply taken hold of, having a quality or character, or even heavy influence. My guess is that if O'Donovan is really being "properly theological" then it must mean something in line with 21.19.

Certainly of the many, many words I could use to describe the churches I've known, patience is not one of them. Perhaps this is O'Donovan's point?

Brodie

Fernando - Give the O'Donovan is wanting to defend Christendom to some extent, part of what he is arguing here is that the church today is influenced / distorted (my word not his), by the influence of the dominant culture.

I'm sorry but I don't get youe 21:19 ref, can you say more on this?

fernando

Sorry,, Luke 21.19 - "By your endurance you will gain your lives." To me a theology of being posessed by the gospel implies eschatology. I was wondering if that would make sense of O'Donovan's point - faithfulness in the midst of (cultural) apocalypse.


Brodie

Fernando - eschatology is certainly an important feature in all the O'Donovan would want to argue.

Paul

I think that I am a happy seeking abstracted consumer - who is on a mission to be happy, to be self fulfilled, which means getting paid lots, getting a lot of recognition, living somewhere big and nice and minding my own business as long as i am not hurting anyone else.

I'm more a cultural cow with a ring through my nose being led merrily along, happy to have Jesus baptise my life with respectability.

Now if that is dominant narrative that i struggle with, maybe its a cultural one that the western church also struggles with - how does that contrast with the kingdom of God, about dying to our selves, giving up our rights, realising we are intimately connected with each other and our world, of serving and blessing others - so that we live out something of that?

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