Harry Potter

I've appreciated getting to know John Smulo via his blog and the odd email. For those of you who read this blog who don't know John then you really should pay him a visit. John is very active int he area of missional apologetics especially amoung people who would describe themselves as satanists, witches, pagans etc. He also teaches and has chapters and articles published on New Religious Movements. Given all this I thought it would be good to ask John some questions about the whole Harry Potter thing, especially as the last of the books is released for sale tonight. So here's my interview with John regarding Harry Potter.

ME – John thanks for agreeing to give us some of your thoughts about the Harry Potter books and films.

John – No problem. I’m glad to participate.

ME – I guess the first question is an obvious one...have you read any of the books or seen any of the films?

John – I’ve seen all of the movies, and read all of the books—except for the last one. This will disappoint hard core fans, and make those who question whether Christians should have anything to do with Harry Potter question my decision.

ME – You work with people who would describe themselves as witches, druids, Satanists, and others from occult backgrounds. Is there any correlation between the characters in the books and the wizardry portrayed and the people you know in real life.

John – Yes there are lots of correlations. But, I also see lots of correlations between the characters in the Harry Potter books and Christians I know. The correlations have to do with the struggle between making right moral choices and wrong ones. They have to do with having a sense that there is more to this world than what our five senses tell us.

However, as far as the wizardry portrayed and the people I know, I don’t see any literal correlations.

Me – I’ve heard people say that some of the names of things, people and spells in the books do indeed refer to things, people or spells exist in ocultic circles. Personally I’m sceptical about this, but to your knowledge is there any truth in these claims and if so does that make the books more “dangerous”.

John – To the best of my knowledge, there aren’t any actual things, people, or spells that exist in occult circles. The names of the spells, for example, are clearly fictional playful ones.

Me – Some people in Christian circles have made some astounding claims about JK Rowling herself, saying that she personally must be involved in the occult and that these books will draw countless young people into the occult. What do you make of these claims?

John – I think these claims are ridiculous. J. K. Rowling has consistently denied them, and there’s simply no evidence suggesting otherwise. It pains me to see Christians who lie about people based on hearsay. This is irresponsible and needs to be taken more seriously.

As people who follow the One who called himself the “Truth”, we would do well to make sure we’re telling the truth about others. If we speak confidently about things that others know are lies, why would anyone have confidence in us when we share the truth about eternal life?

Me – Over the past couple of decades there seems to have been a resurgence in paganism, neo-paganism, native spiritualities, Wicca, Satanism and witchcraft. What do you think is driving this resurgence? Are the HP books and films part of this, or are they just following in the tradition of kids stories about magic and fantasy?

John – The last few decades have certainly seen a consistent growth of various Pagan spiritualities (witchcraft, Druidry, Shamanism, etc.). Statistics on Satanism have always been much more difficult to nail down. But the growth there has likely been much less than Paganism has seen.

I think there are a number of complex factors that are driving this. Some include a growing dissatisfaction with other spiritual options, including Christianity—or perhaps more accurately, especially Christianity—when it comes to important issues involving women and the environment, a rejection of “dogmatic” faiths, and the like.

This trend, particularly in the growth of Pagan spiritual paths, has been going on for decades, long before anyone ever heard of ‘J. K. Rowling’ or ‘Harry Potter.’ That said, the last decade has seen a rise of books, television shows, and movies that have often portrayed particularly witchcraft in a positive light (of course there are notable examples that have been exceptionally negative). I think that this may have at least a tentative link to the growth in Pagan spirituality. Though it would be inaccurate to say that Harry Potter is driving the resurgence in Paganism, and certainly not Satanism. Instead there are a wide variety of factors involved—most significantly, there are simply a large number of people who find Paganism a meaningful spiritual path.

Me – Some responses to the whole HP things seem to be driven by fear and following close behind these seems to be a loathing almost a hatred of JK Rowling, or of people who are witches, etc. What books or blogs and what general advice would you give to people with regards to how to deal with this fear and how to respond to people that  are involved in witchcraft?

John – I agree with what you say about the fearful responses of many. This is really sad to me.

The advice I would give to people in regard to how to deal with this fear would be this: Stop viewing people through your fears and prejudices, or second hand (mis)understandings of such things. Instead, start to see J. K. Rowling and those involved in the occult through God’s perspective. In practical terms, instead of being afraid of them, enjoy the knowledge that they are also made in God’s image; instead of disliking them, love them as yourself—after all witches are your neighbour too.

In regard to literature, I’d say to be suspicious of Christian literature written on the occult—and especially literature by alleged “former” witches or Satanists. Virtually all of the latter have been proven to be frauds both in terms of their alleged involvement with occult paths, and also with the description they give of occult beliefs and practices. Sad, but true.

For those interested, I have a number of articles and books listed in the ‘Resources’ link on my Missional Apologetics (http://www.missionalapologetics.com/) website dealing with these subjects. For books dealing specifically with Harry Potter I’d recommend those written by Connie Neal.

There are also bloggers, such as Philip Johnson, Matt Stone, and John Morehead who fairly regularly deal with these topics on their blogs from a Christian perspective. There are also excellent Pagan bloggers such as Jason Pitzl-Waters.

Me – While we’re on this subject is there anything else that you’d want to add?

John – One of the main reasons I hear from Christians in regard to why they don’t read Harry Potter books is because they mention magic, spells, witchcraft, magical creatures, and the like. The thing is, C. S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia do as well, not to mention many childhood stories such as Snow White. If we reject the former for this reason, we also need to reject the latter. Better to be discerning, especially if it involves children—some of the scenes in Harry Potter are too scary, but then again so are some of the scenes in Chronicles of Narnia in my opinion.

We need to think more logically and consistently on this matter.

Me – Thanks for taking the time to do this – I appreciate the authenticity and years of both research and practical experience that your coming from in this area.

John – Love your blog. Thanks for the opportunity to be involved.

Comments

[lynn]

Brodie and John - I'm posting a heartfelt thanks to both of you for your questions and anwers. This is one of the most useful dialogues I have ever seen (read!?/heard!?) on Harry Potter.

For me as a parent of young children, the key point John makes is to exercise common sense (I prefer that word to censorship) about taking children to see ANY films without perhaps previewing them yourself.

I have dealt with lots of children who have nightmares and bad dreams over auks (from LOTR) because Hollywood effects stick in the memory more than written descriptions. Wormwood's performance is pretty scary too! Never underestimate the visual recall capabilities of a child, even for a scene that, cinematographically speaking, lasts for a fleeting second.

Anyway, I'm drifting onto another topic.....

thanks again guys

[lynn]

ps Brodie - love the new photie, I'd call that your "Fantastic Four" (or "Superhero") pose :-)

[sally]

good interview- well said John! and thanks Brodie

[talkrhubarb]

It's good to get less heat and more light on this - particularly as I know people with views that have given rise to some of your questions ;-)

PS - Dark blue text on black background is hard to read. Is this deliberate?

[Brodie]

Talkrhubarb - sorry dark blue is hard to read, when trying to edit Typepad will not let me change this to rich text, and I can't edit the colour in HTML !

[Brodie]

Sally - thanks for the comment, and as you say thank to John for doign this.

[Brodie]

Lynn - "auks"????????? I think you mean orcs!I like Mark Kermode as a film critic, and he's one for goign and checking out a film before you take your kids.

[Lorna (see-through faith)]

Thanks for this.

As a mother and a Christian I made the decision NOT to ban the HP book (we got the first LONG before it was famous!) and read them TO our kids. Now HP7 is out and they've read it themselves but want me to read it aloud to them anyway (they are 15 and 17!) - and I've found it opens all kinds of healthy discussions.

I think many Christians (particularly in the USA) are woefully ignorant and are fed on fear. The occult is bad - no question there - but lack of knowledge doesn't make us safer at all.

IMHO the HP books are mostly about the consequences of our choices. That's so good in a day and age where 'anything goes' so very often and the idea of personal let alone corporate responsibility seem to be like fairy tales. Scary.