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Friday, June 15, 2007



you should check out Grahams Leaving Munster blog, he is an anabaptist from England. I have not come across a blog with more written on Nonviolence and nonviolent atonement yet.


I realise that Weaver's book is primarily about the atonement, but does he deal at all with the eschatalogical possibility of Divinve violence. The idea that if some are cut off then this necessitates some form of Divine violence?

I think this book will be next on my "to read list".


Jason - I from time to time have a look at leaving Munster


Glenn - he takes a look at the imagery in Revelation and the violent images in this book. What he does not specifically deal with the issue of some being cut off and this being a form of divine violence.

andy goodliff

It sounds a good book, I'll key an eye out for it. Thanks for review.

Paul Ede

Hiya Brodie...Just a small comment on this assumption of Weaver's: "For Weaver part of the issue is if we claim that Jesus calls us to nonviolence then if God either requires or is an active participant in the death of Jesus then any claims of nonviolence are destroyed." I'd be really interested if you could help me trace the logic of this, because I haven't yet figured out whether its necessarily the case that it follows that if there is violence in the atonement, then we can't be pacifists. Is it not possible that we can be pacifists precisely because of the violence of the atonement? i.e. Christ takes the punishment so that we don't have to punish ourselves or others? If I think that penal sub is a meaningful portrayal of the atonement, does that actually mean that ethically I am compelled to be committed to redemptive violence?


I'm intrigued - how does God avoid nonviolence - to me it's either via commission or omission...

But in saying that one day i have a hope for a non-violent world :)


Paul & Paul - I plan to write a post picking up these thoughts in a few days rather than hide something away here in the comments section.

Rodney Olsen

I interviewed non-violence activist, Jarrod McKenna, on my radio programme recently.



Rodney - thanks for this link I will listen with interest.


Hi Paul (Ede),

I wonder if I can take the liberty of answering for Brodie.

Miroslav Volf seems to take the line that we can be pacifists because of the violence of the atonement. (On a different issue, Yoder implies the same in Politics of Jesus.) The problem I have with this view is what it says about the kind of God we serve, how he works, and how we image him. It would be the ultimate vindication of the myth of redemptive violence.

However, I simply think that Weaver handles the exegetical data better than most proponents of a violent atonement. (Having said that, there are some holes in his argument and he doesn't deal with every text or pre-empt every objection.


I see that Denny Weaver's just responded to this point, understandably better than I!


Graham - thanks for your contribution.

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