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Wednesday, January 24, 2007


andy goodliff

i taped it and watched it after christmas ... it was ok ... but like the dawkins series ... i felt the arguments made lacked proper depth, which will always be the case with a programme like this, because it is appealing to a wide audience. i felt like the dawkins programmes it needed some thoelogical heavyweights ... mcgrath turns up a few times but only truncated snippets from obviously a longer interview ... it would have been good to see keith ward, who has written a book to answer the dawkins root of all evil series, and the likes of tom wright or rowan williams.


Andy - there seems to be a trend with a lot of TV that there's more fill than substance to them. You could probably cut 1/4 from this and not lose anything.


Forget atheism, what is that you have on your hand in the picture - and why no picture with winter beard? I preferred the empty plate!

Sorry, I have totally lowered the tone of your blog...


Stuart - It's a pic to make me think of summer as it's from my trip last year to New Orleans to help with the relief stuff that's going on there. And the thing on my hand is a grass hopper, and yes it was real!


And its me who got the heebie-jeebies about the empty plate....



Lynn - what can I saw...I remove the empty plate to suit you and now Stuart is making a fuss about the animal on my hand!

Also comments about my use of the word liminal or liminality should be posted in the right place otherwise some people might think that your mad or just plain not understand why you have introduced this word in this context.

That said - you're friend Derek Watson is writing a paper that has liminality in it's title (i think) so perhaps ask him. You could also read Andy Goodliff's post where he quotes an liturgy by Jenny Baker which both uses and gives an explination of the word, or you could read "The Shape of things to Come" by Frost and Hirsh, who also use the term and explain it's use.


Ah but do they use liminal correctly - for although we talk about it as a 'threshold' or a 'betwixt and between' period of change, Turner's understanding of the actual change that may come about in that period was quite limited - for in fact liminality may reinforce the status quo rather than ultimately challenge it, functioning a bit like a carnival which allows people to blow of steam but then go back to the way things were. I think in his later works he admitted a bit more potentiality. And anyway - he says that in societies where there is a division of life into work and recreation such as in urban and post-urban industrial contexts rather than in the communities he examined where that division did not occur that we should use the word 'liminoid' rather than liminal.

Most Christian people who write on liminality do so taking their ideas from a book by Roxburgh on 'Liminality and Leadership' from where they get their understanding rather than from Turner himself.(Since you have stung me in my own blog - I am now fighting back). Anyway where should we be talking about this...and who raised it...

One of the really interesting things not really developed so far by Christian writers however, is the way in which 'liminal' or 'liminoid' people can challenge a society by their refusal to be controlled by the powers that be such as 'Jesters' - My own concept of guerrilla preachers is based on this idea...(I think I am getting boring - but just glad to have a chance to spout off on a pile of stuff I read and then could not use...).


Oh no, what have I started.....

:::::::::::::rushes to remove the word liminal to its COLLECT grasshoppin', plate-clearin' placeon B's blog !! :::::::::::::


.....that should be CORRECT place!!

(humorous impact now lost by subliminal spelling....)


Stuart - Your a mine of information. On the topic of Jesters - I went to a seminar a couple of years back by Johnny Baker on being a Trickster - I think this would interest you?

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