« not here | Main | You should read this. »

Tuesday, July 26, 2005


andy goodliff

Good post Brodie. Although I would argue that Hauerwas would say that the church learns to be a peaceable kingdom through the practice of eucharist and baptism. I think calvin is going the right way in his definition - word and sacrament constitute the church, although you right I think that a definition of church must go beyond this.


Andy – I’m not a particular fan of Calvin or the reformation ‘marks of church’ – I think taking this approach it’s unavoidable that church becomes something we do rather than the ‘body we are’. Re what Hauerwas might want to say about Baptism and Eucharist – well you pre-empt me a little on what I might say about what the mission of the church means.

steve hollinghurst

dropped by after you visited my site. thnaks for rasing a really good subject, and wating for the further thoughts on mission.i agree it is viatl that church is not simply seen as a gathering.

this post very much in the proffessional area we work in (especially my colleague George Lings who might have is whole job seen as 'recognising churches after the event'). the question is key not just so we can work out if wht i do in the pub is church (as you righlty point out), but rather because in a world in which the church is primarily an instrument of God's mission (a misison i would see starting in creation and reaching it's fullness in the reconcillation of creation to God and itself in Christ comming to it's end in the new creation)and that mission is cross cultural and multi-cultural, then church will emerge in all sorts of unexpected places flowing from incarnational mission. so it becomes crucial to spot this happening. secondly we need to know when the plant is healthy or when it is stunted. i would suggest that healthy church has the following marks. it is missional, it understands itself as existing for mission not as an end in itself (this is where many of our churches are not healthy IMHO). it is discipling, it enables people to grow more like christ both as individuals and importanly as a community called to be chrsits body. it relates to God in worship, word and sacrament, this is the Calvin bit! it is catholic, that is it is related to the church worlwide and through the ages. finally it is reproductive, it will reproduce other new churches (and not simply new christians). still very much though in porgress but what do you think?


steve - thanks for popping by and leaving a comment. There's much to think about in what you say. I'd agree that church needs to view itself as existing for mission and not as an end in itself and that this should manifest itself in it being reproductive.

The comments to this entry are closed.